WLP292: Rethinking Thinking Remote: Working Out Loud
In this episode, we revisit the chapters from our book Thinking Remote which addressed the concept of “working out loud”.
Adopting the concept helps to keep the team spirit, how to stay aligned and creative. Working out loud allows those who thrive on interactive energy - we can think of “working out loud for productivity, creativity and collaboration”.
The concept of working out loud has been around for a while, since the online world started thriving. (For more on this, check out episode 170, with guest Jochen Lillich )
Since we wrote the book, we have started to talk more about “visible teamwork”, rather than working out loud, which sometimes feels like we’re broadcasting. (Check out this post for more: https://www.virtualnotdistant.com/blog/hello-visible-teamwork)
8.50mins
How have things changed since we wrote those blog posts?
Everyone’s adopted the tech, but not the concept and most teams haven’t agreed how to use the tech to stay connected and aligned. There is so much information now about how and why to use the apps, but it seems like team members don’t have the time to look through the information. Apps have also improved their onboarding process - kudos!
Most of working out loud is still happening in writing, and this might be a block for some people. We could still do with more adoption of other forms of async communication, like audio, or video recordings. We also need permission within the team, to pay less attention to “writing well”, as long as we keep understanding each other. If our writing is “official” or for outsiders, then of course we need to pay attention to detail.
18.01mins
As an example of the power of “working out loud” and “thinking out loud” we quote from this article: Can Matt Mullenweg save the internet?
“For these new companies, joining Automattic can feel a bit like being dropped into Mullenweg’s frontal cortex. It’s a completely remote company, for one thing. And because Mullenweg is a blogger at heart, you’re likely to spend most of your first few days at the company reading. Automattic — like Mullenweg — defaults to transparency and flat hierarchies. Employees are encouraged to write about their ideas even in their very earliest stages, and everyone around the company is encouraged to comment. (That meant, for instance, that Pocket Casts’ Ivanovic could read back through chat logs to see the conversation that led to its acquisition, including the parts where some employees thought it was a bad idea.) It can feel strange at first, but multiple founders I spoke with said they quickly came to appreciate the Automattic way of doing things. "
Which shows we also need guidelines on what to do with all the information that results from working out loud and documentation… We never said this was easy!
The fact that everything is there for posterity can also prevent some from sharing. Worth discussing which conversations and thought sharing can be deleted later. Consider the culture of the organisation or team, and start from there. Speaking of which, this is one of the ways in which culture is built in remote teams: through documenting thoughts, conversations and processes. There’s a whole spectrum of adoption of the working out loud concept.
25.40 mins
We revisit the chapter from Thinking Remote The Dangers of Working Out Loud , First published as a blog post in 2016.
“When we begin to work in a virtual or partly remote fashion, one of our fears is that our communication with team members will be sparse, that we won’t know what everyone is working on, that we will lose the human connection.
The solution that myself and other “virtual experts” offer is to narrate your work, to work out loud. And so, we go onto our collaboration platforms every day (be it Yammer, Slack, BaseCamp, Trello, Skype for Business, Redbooth, and any others that might pop up in the next few years) and have visible conversations with team members, so that we don’t fear losing all the bits of information we would overhear in the office. We hyper-communicate for fear of under-communicating and to make sure we don’t lose that sense of “team”.
All the time.
And that includes you, the manager.
Now you can see the conversations people have about a task.
You can read every small request for information or help.
You can watch people struggle through their process – a struggle that is essential to them as they figure out how to innovate.
And all the while, because we’re trying to move away from the dysfunctional hierarchical structures we all love to hate, you’re trying not to interfere. You’re reminding yourself that team members like autonomy, that you don’t have all the answers, that you’re just creating the environment within which they can thrive.
And yet."
That apps list has dated the article!
You can’t help but want to help often as manager/team lead, and having every struggle and problem visible can be stressful. Especially if this is a new initiative, team members will look out to see how much “working out loud” their team leaders is doing. This doesn’t have to cover your tasks and activities, if you don’t think it’s of interest, but might involve sharing thinking how you make decisions, conversations you’re having with others outside the team, all this can help others grow too.
30.40mins
Next up, we turn our attention to the team member, and revisit the chapter by Maya: Now that I’m remote can anyone see how hard I’m working?
Teams might experience the need to show they’re working hard, or even just the fact that they are present, and can turn to “working out loud” as a way of doing this. If we notice this, we need to ask whether people are feeling undervalued and address that.
There’s also danger of managers using these practices, or be seen to be using these practices to micromanage, when all they want to do is know whether the work is being done.
Having a conversation about how a team can work out loud can lead to a conversation about the work, or how you’re feeling about working with each other. This can be done in the team, or in one-ones. Use the fact that you’re introducing or even thinking about introducing this practice to talk about how you’re working together.
We also need to be mindful about why we’re introducing a practice, even if it’s because we feel disconnected as a manager.
When this chapter was written, there wasn’t so much technology which could lead to presenteeism, or such a wide adoption of tech that suggested we should be constantly available through our apps. Beware of “faking presenteeism” (something kids have learned to do!) - if this is happening, ask yourself why!
Working out loud should remove the need to show that we are “working right now” and put the focus on what we’re doing, why we’re doing it, what we’re learning from it.
You can listen to the two chapters we refer to in episode WLP292AddOn.
39.36 WHAT OTHERS ARE DOING AND SAYING
Thanks to @AnnetteB_N8 on Twitter, for quoting the podcast in her co-authored book “Research Collaboration. A step-by-step guide to success.”
Congratulations to Pueblos Remotos for completing their second “helping” of Pueblos Remotos, bringing together remote workers with local entrepreneurs in Fuerteventura. Here is a link to the article from one of the participants.
You can listen to Carlos and Elsa talk about Pueblos Remotos in episode 289.
And Pilar’s husband shared the link to this article: The Spanish villages with the best 5G and fiber connections
When Pilar shared the episode from My Pocket Psych episode on personality, https://www.worklifepsych.com/podcast/103/ which warns us of the dangers of stereotyping by personality, she received this reply from @Ilma_tweets on Twitter:
"When we interviewed people in our company, we find out that extroverts prefer remote work. They have no problems finding ways to communicate even asynchronously and their social circle outside work is bigger."
Don’t forget to keep in touch and let us know the changes you have seen in the remote work landscape this year. We have a form for you to contact us, or you can tweet Virtual Not Distant, or Pilar and Maya directly, with your thoughts and ideas about anything we have discussed in this episode or others, as well as links or themes you’d like us to explore in future episodes.
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