WLP363 Building Engagement and Belonging
In this episode Pilar talks to Justin Gignac, co-founder of Working Not Working, and Nicolina Jennings, the company's VP and Managing Director. Our guests share the origins and evolution of Working Not Working, and how what they’ve learned about engagement and belonging led to their new platform NTRNL. They make a strong case for increasing employee retention by creating an infrastructure that makes internal opportunities - and hidden talents- visible to all.
While working as a freelancer, Justin found the process of finding work to be highly inefficient. In a lighthearted attempt to solve this problem, he created the "Justin Gignac Freelance Status Apparatus" on his portfolio site – a blinking neon sign indicating his availability for work. The idea took off, and soon recruiters were not only seeking Justin's availability but also asking about his friends.
Recognising the potential of this model, Justin and his friend Adam Tompkins launched Working Not Working in 2012 with 300 of the best freelancers they knew. The platform grew slowly at first, maintaining exclusivity, but eventually opened up to allow anyone to create a profile, with industry professionals vetting new members.
Nicolina joined the team two years ago, bringing along her extensive experience from the advertising industry to help solidify the creative ideas and turn them into an ambitious mission.
The company, made up of around eight people, has remained nimble and scrappy. The team is fully distributed, reflecting their approach to talent and team collaboration within the community. The acquisition by Fiverr a couple of years ago provided support and resources, while allowing Working Not Working to maintain its autonomy and continue pursuing its mission.
08.25 MINS
What’s it like to be part of the Working not Working community?
For creatives, the first step in becoming part of the community is creating a profile. They provide details about their current availability, resume information, portfolio, and industry experience – all of which is searchable within the platform. Members can also connect with and vouch for other professionals they've worked with and know can deliver.
Justin Gignac
Working Not Working actively encourages people to become part of their community, going beyond simply using the platform for job opportunities. The company organises numerous events to foster a sense of belonging and support among creative professionals. One of these is "Talking, Not Talking" – a monthly support group where creatives can openly discuss the challenges and struggles they face in their professional lives.
The platform aims to bring people together and provide support, recognizing that those in creative fields often feel like the "freaks and geeks and weirdos that chose the path less travelled." (Justin’s words!) Working Not Working believes in nurturing and supporting these professionals to help them succeed in their careers.
Nurturing their Clients
Over the past 18 months, there has been a shift in the types of companies using Working Not Working. In addition to traditional advertising agencies, more in-house agencies at big brands, small design shops, and startups are now turning to the platform to find creative talent. Often, it's the CEO or CCO looking to make their first creative team hire with the goal of scaling the team over time.
Nicolina Jennings
This shift has driven the creative community to rethink how they present themselves and their skills. In Nicolina’s words: "It's gone from really being sort of a one-dimensional expert in an area and being able to show how you can upskill, how you have multiple skills, how you can sort of wear many hats within an organisation."
One of Working Not Working's goals is to help customers and recruiters evaluate creatives based on their potential, not just their experience alone. But how can potential be assessed, especially in someone just starting their career?
Assessing potential in creative professionals often comes down to gauging their level of curiosity. With the rise of new technologies like AI, there's a tendency for some to express uncertainty or complain about younger people's attitudes. However, the creative industry thrives on curiosity and the willingness to constantly adapt and learn.
The most valuable asset is to stay curious, young at heart, and relevant, regardless of one's age. It's more about mindset than years lived. To succeed in the creative field, individuals must continually reinvent themselves and remain curious about emerging trends and technologies.
Working Not Working is seeing a range of ages among its members, from those who have been with the platform since its early days to younger professionals joining now. However, the platform has noticed that many hiring searches are limited to talent with three to nine years of experience, often due to assumptions about affordability.
Many companies limit their talent searches to candidates with three to nine years of experience, often due to assumptions about affordability. When questioned about this practice, these companies often admit that they believe they cannot afford more experienced professionals. But it's important not to rule out potential candidates based on these assumptions alone. Why not present opportunities to a wider range of talent and allow them to decide whether the role and compensation align with their expectations? Then organizations can access a more diverse pool of candidates and potentially find the right fit for their needs, regardless of years of experience.
16.43 MINS
Introducing NTRNL: An Employee Retention Platform
Building on their success with Working Not Working, the company has launched a new product called NTRNL (pronounced "internal," sans vowels). Born out of the recognition that companies need to continue seeing the whole person and fostering a sense of belonging even after the hiring process, NTRNL aims to help organizations retain talent and keep employees happy.
It’s important for everyone within an organization to be able to create a profile, regardless of their role. People in non-creative roles, such as account managers in advertising agencies, often don't get recognized as "creative" individuals. However, their skills, interests, and unique perspectives are just as valuable to the company as those of the people directly involved in creating concepts. By giving everyone the opportunity to showcase their whole selves through their profiles, NTRNL aims to foster a more inclusive and appreciative environment where all contributions are recognized and celebrated.
NTRNL profiles go beyond job titles and responsibilities, allowing employees to showcase their passions, interests, and the unique qualities they bring to the table. The platform includes prompts like "What's something that you would have told your younger self today if you could?" and "What would you be doing in a zombie apocalypse?" to help people share both funny, quirky aspects of themselves and more serious, career-related information.
(And, Pilar adds, this could be key to reducing meetings, as you increase the chances of people feeling like they are being “seen”, without being present at every meeting.)
In addition to the profiles, NTRNL features an opportunity section that uses a simple mad-lib format: "Blank is seeking blank in blank, starting blank." (Note: The term "mad-lib" is derived from the name of the popular word game "Mad Libs," created by Leonard Stern and Roger Price in 1953.)
This feature allows companies to post various opportunities accessible to all employees, from specific project briefs, such as an Olympics-related assignment or a voiceover role in the New York office, to open positions like an executive producer role in London, or even recreational activities like a hiking club in Portland.
Employees can express their interest in these opportunities with a single click, making it easy for them to put themselves forward and create a sense of belonging within the organization. Transparency is a key aspect of this feature, as it promotes equity by giving everyone a chance to raise their hand for opportunities they might be passionate about, regardless of their location or perceived status within the company. This can prevent the same "darlings" or "A-team" members being repeatedly assigned the most desirable projects due to their proven track record.
NTRNL is not intended to be a project management software. While it can integrate with existing tools if needed, the platform's primary focus is on employee retention. By allowing employees to express interest in their "dream assignments," NTRNL empowers them to take control of their career growth and development. This approach prioritizes employee choice and enthusiasm, rather than simply assigning tasks based on bandwidth or resource availability, ultimately leading to a more engaged and motivated workforce.
Employee Happiness and Retention
Prior to launching NTRNL, Nicolina conducted a happiness survey with the Working Not Working community, focusing on full-time employees within organizations. The results: 73% of respondents were looking to leave their company within six months, and the majority had only been with their current employer for two to five years.
The survey revealed a direct correlation between happiness factors and retention. While salary was initially a deciding factor in accepting a role, a company's culture had the highest potential to retain employees for up to nine months. This “culture” wasn't about superficial perks like ping-pong tables and happy hours, but rather employee wellness factors such as schedule flexibility, the opportunity to work on projects aligned with one's interests, and the company's overall values.
As organisations grapple with the challenges of remote and hybrid work, fostering connection and belonging has become more important than ever. While some companies are turning to return-to-office mandates as a solution, Working Not Working's approach with NTRNL offers a compelling alternative – one that empowers employees to showcase their whole selves, access meaningful opportunities, and find fulfilment in their work.
Talking of visibility, thanks to Tommy for organising this meaty chat!
Check out Working not Working and NTRNL
Follow Justin Gignac on LinkedIn and Nicolina Jennings.
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